This is the probably the most loaded subject on the internet, and I’ll more than likely anger any number of people. If I’ve come to one conclusion about gun folks, it’s that they have a tendency to be a bit monomaniacal when it comes to their favorite firearms. The never-ending 1911 versus Glock argument is a cliché at this point, only matched in its ubiquity by the argument over which caliber is a better manstopper: the large, slow-moving, hard-hitting .45 ACP round, or the small, fast, deep-penetrating 9mm. I’m currently reading Tactical Pistol: Advanced Gunfighting Concepts And Techniques by Gabriel Suarez (with a forward by Jeff Cooper), and he makes no bones about his preference for .45 ACP. Massad Ayoob, whom I’ve just finished two books by, In the Gravest Extreme and The Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry, thinks both are fine, given the right kind of ammunition.
If there is any kind of consensus, however, it’s that .45 ACP is one of the best manstoppers out there. I’ve never read anybody argue that .45 ACP is a lousy self defense round. Conversely, I have read many arguments that 9mm is a lousy self defense round, though usually those arguments are restricted to ball ammunition. There also seems to be a consensus that any round much smaller than 9mm is inadequate.
If stopping power were the only consideration, I’d probably opt for something chambered in .45. But stopping power can’t be my only consideration. For one thing, I need to be able to shoot my carry gun, and shoot it a lot. Like most people, I don’t have much expendable income, and that means I have to take into account the price of ammunition. As any one who’s been to any of the big box stores knows, 9mm runs about half the price of .45. And, perhaps even more importantly, .45 is really hard to find right now. Thanks to a hysteria in gun culture about Obama’s election, all ammunition is in scarce supply, but particularly .45.
Which brings me to the second consideration for my carry gun besides caliber: reliability. I don’t want to carry a gun that I can’t trust to go bang every single time.
I have three handguns that I could conceivable carry: a Ruger GP100 with a 4″ barrel chambered in .357 Magnum, a Glock 19 chambered in 9mm, and a Springfield GI Mil-Spec 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. I’m ruling out the Ruger GP100 for a number of reasons. It has an adjustable rear sight, which can get knocked off center getting carried around all day, it’s slow to reload, .357 Magnum costs even more than .45 ACP, and it’s just slightly less heavy than a shotgun. Most importantly, however, is that I have a harder being quick and accurate with the long double-action revolver trigger than I do with either the Glock or the 1911. (Which is not to say expert revolver shooters can’t be just as quick or quicker; but you’ve gotta be an expert, and I’m not.)
Which leaves the Glock and the 1911. I bought the 1911 last year with the express desire to make it my carry gun in the future, and that plan is still in place. Over the last two months, I’ve been tinkering with it consistently. Among other things, I changed the mainspring housing to remove the lawyer lock, swapped a long trigger to match my long fingers, and added a really ugly — though functional — drop-in beavertail grip safety to stop the hammerbite (though to be honest, I’ll probably put in a fitted version sometime soon, just because it bugs me aesthetically). I love the 1911′s trigger, I love the way it feels in my hand, and I’m more accurate with it than I am the Glock.
But it’s not as reliable. Not even close. In firing thousands of rounds through the Glock I’ve never had a failure of any kind, no matter what kind of ammunition I use. I’ve fired less than a thousand rounds through the 1911, and I’ve had dozens of failures. That very well could be because I’m shooting reloads due to the ammunition drought, but I don’t know that, and I can’t know it until I can get my hands on factory ammunition in quantities enough to prove it. It could also be resolved by tensioning the extractor and/or swapping in a stronger recoil spring, but to do that kind of tinkering, I need to be able to shoot a bunch of ammunition through it to test the results. I think it’s fair to expect a carry gun to go through 500 rounds without any hiccups before it’s considered reliable.
So, I plan on doing all those things to the 1911, and figuring out what the problem is. That’s part of this project, to be able to all the basic work on my final carry gun that I should be able to, and that means keeping it reliable. But until I figure that out, I think the Glock’s going to be my carry gun as soon as my permit comes through.
Personally, I think Glock is a great first gun. It may not be the prettiest or flashiest firearm on the planet, but, at least in my experience, it always goes bang when you want it to, it never goes bang when you don’t want it to, you can dry fire it all you want without hurting it, it’s really easy to field strip and clean, it doesn’t rust, and, at about $500 new, it costs less than most other quality guns. There very well could be other handguns at the same price point that are just as good, but I haven’t owned them. I have owned a Glock, and I’m happy to recommend it for those looking for a first self defense gun.
Good post.
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Thanks, James.
I carry a Glock19 every day; I found it the perfect all around gun. As you have found, the reliability is 100% and I think that is the most important consideration for a self defense pistol. The difference in performance between a top quality .45 and 9mm are academic at best. Shot placement is more important than caliber. With a good belt and IWB holster, the 19 disappears under even a t shirt as a cover and is comfortable enough for all day carry.
Thanks, Dave. I’m glad to hear that. I just ordered a Don Hume IWB holster yesterday, and my summer wear is pretty much T-shirt and jeans.
I agree about the Glock. Never known anybody who has complaints about its reliability, and if you hit somebody they’ll definitely know they’ve been hit and tend to stay that way.
Also agree about the relative unreliability of 1911 (ain’t just the reloads, although they’re probably making things worse).
Now, about the trigger-pull and sight on your .357, I’ve got a question. Since you’re obviously prepared to dump some $ into your .45, why not spend a few having the .357 trigger modified and the sight replaced with something less quirky?
After all, the problems you describe are hardly insurmountable, the .357 is at least as reliable as the Glock, and it hits harder than anything else on your list.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. It’s slower to reload. No fix for that, I’m afraid.
I’ve been thinking about that, Charley. I think more than even a trigger job I would just need to do a lot of practicing, which might very well be worth it. And I found these rear sights on Brownells which would probably take care of the adjustable sight problem: http://tinyurl.com/y9joknl I think if I coupled that with a smaller, rounded grip than the huge, rubber Hogue thing that’s on it now, it might work pretty well.
I’ll be honest, one of the reasons I want to make the 1911 into my carry gun is purely romantic. It’s the gun that John Dillinger kept under his pillow and that, well, Charley Arthur carried (two of ’em, right?). The other reasons are a little more practical. Overall, I do shoot better with it than anything else I’ve shot. I’m more accurate with slow considered shots with the GP100, but with the kind of shooting that I’m imagining would happen in a self defense situation, I’m better with the 1911. Also, and this is partially romantic, but partially practical, I want a gun that I can tinker with, that I know inside and out. The 1911 lends itself to that.
We’ll see. I know there are great, reliable 1911s out there. I just need to figure out the secret. And if I can’t, well, I’ll probably go the Ruger route in heavy-clothing weather and the Glock in light-clothing weather.
My belief is that differences in stopping power between premium hollowpoints is significant up to 9mm. Once you get to 9mm, other factors like comfortable carrying, personal accuracy, followup time, and cost of practice ammo are more important than caliber.
I would not rely on a gun with a manual safety as a carry gun unless most of my practice is also with a similar manual safety.
I don’t personally like Glocks, but my dislike is due to ergonomics rather than anything wrong with the gun–They are at a sweet spot for price vs. performance.
My 1911 experience is minimal, but it appears to me that while they can be very, very good guns they are far more variable and less likely to be suitable out of the box or on a budget.
I say this being a huge fan of revolvers and 1911s; carry the Glock 19. The Glock 19 is dead reliable, it’s easy to get parts for when it breaks (and break it will, there are no magic swords), magazines are cheap, it eats cheap ammo all night and day long, and you don’t have to fiddle with it to make it a reliable, accurate, service weapon.
In fact, if when I was first starting out on this “gun thing” and I knew then what I know today, I would have just bought 3 Glock 19s and a pile of magazines and been perfectly happy with those for the rest of my life.
Well, yeah, I’ve known to carry a pair of 1911s, but only once in a while. Damn things are a wee bit heavy for regular wear.
Thanks for weighing in, Sevesteen and Caleb. I think it’s the Glock . . .
I don’t carry my 1911 as much as I carry my other guns. It’s not so much the weight as it is that the weight and size of the piece causes it to move around more than my other guns. I am going to try to find a thicker, wider belt and maybe that will help but I already wear one that is pretty thick. I hand-sew my own leather holsters as a hobby and I have an idea for a more stable holster that I will also try as soon as I get some time. Until then I have some smaller pieces that I carry most of the time that don’t have the same issues.
As for the Glock 19. Good gun as far as I know. I have fired a couple of them and they were fine for what they were. I just don’t like them, mostly on an asthetic level. To me, Glocks have all the character of a 2by4, and (at least to me) carry the stigma of being “urban ghetto trash” guns. I guess I’m still a country boy at heart and even though I live in the “big city” now, I still don’t “get” urban culture. My friends keep trying to make me listen to hip-hop, I just don’t have a frame of referance to understand it.
On a less personal note, I see a lot of gun guys promote the Glock as a good first gun for a new shooter and have to very much disagree with that. I have seen too many times where a new shooter gets a Glock and emediately has the lighter trigger installed and absolutely LOVES it. Who could blame them, they shoot nice. The problem is, they now have a gun with pretty much NO safety. Yes yes, I know, that little lever on the trigger. BULLSHIT! All it takes is one time of forgetting to keep the booger hook of the bang switch and a VERY easy to accidentally pull trigger and everyone is crying “IT JUST WENT OFF!”. Well guns don’t “JUST GO OFF” missy. If it must be a 9mm. Better to be something that at least the first trigger pull isn’t quite so light.
/me puts away soap box
s
Thanks for the thoughtful piece and reasonable conclusion.
I carry a 1911 – actually an Officers Model Colt. Most of the time. Weekends, I swap it for a Commander and have carried one or the other every day, 12-18 hours a day since 1996. I fire an average of 100 rounds a month practicing. Based on this, I believe I am reasonably familiar with the platform.
1911 Platform
The issues you describe sound to me as if the Springfield is not broken in- you are right, no magic swords. Machinery typically must be broken in before it is fully ready for service. Good magazines are a must. Try it with Wilson 47 magazines. They are expensive, but I belive they are worth it. If the gun isnt reliable after 500 rounds break in and good mags, send it back.
I have found my Colts to be extremely reliable and the manual of arms is simple, IMHO. They are accurate. They are flat and easy to conceal and carry comfortably, day in day out. They fact that they are loaded with .45 Federal Magic Bullets is a comforting thought. Drawbacks are , of course ” cocked and locked” gives some folks ( even experinced people) the heebie-jeebies, a 5 pound SA trigger is a management problem for some, and that thumb safety requires manipulation.
Gaston Glocks Masterpiece
Glocks ARE reliable. The design is a marvel of mechanical engineering. The only problems I have with the Glock are ergonomics ( it IS shaped like a two-by-four) and lack of manual safety. I personally dont like the trigger, but can live with it. The “Glock Unintended Discharge” is so common, particularly in police locker rooms, under several names, as to be unworthy of additional comment. The preventaion of the GUD is training and practice, and the reason that the Glock was selected in the first place, by many agencies, is they thought it would require substantially less training and practice. If you are going to spend the additional personal training and practice time, then you will have sufficient effort invested to have mastered a single action, manual safety pistol. The 9mm with Magic Bullets is a reasonably effective round. I do prefer something bigger, but , as I said, with good bullets, it will get the job done. One caveat, if you are shooting military ball, a back-up, such as a bayonet or e-tool, is recommended.
At any rate, the Glock is a reasonable solution if you must have a Wonder-Nine autopistol, although the Springfield XD-M is ( for me anyway) an all-around improvement, with a more ergonomic shape, a better trigger and a grip safety as well.
General Use All Around
If the idea is for what recommendation for Joe and Jane Average, who are not ” gunny” and are not likely to be, and who will fire 50 rounds through the piece once a year, it is hard to beat a Smith and Wesson Model 10-6 Heavy Barrel, loaded with .38 + P Special Gold Dot. Available used for circa $300 bucks, such a selection gives an inexpensive, quality, simple, reliable, accurate, authoritative weapon which is suitable ( in a good IWB ) for concealed carry. The factory DA trigger pull is pretty good, and should be easy to master, there are no extraneous levers or controls, and operation is intuitive. The design is ” safe” , repairs are easy, cheap mil-spec ball ammo is readily available for practice. The fixed sights wont get out of whack. The Model 10 does only carry six rounds, but if the dance party requires more than that, then the user SHOULD be under cover and a speedloader refill takes no more than a few seconds.
My take on the matter. Others no doubt may disagree.
Hmm . . . maybe the Springfield isn’t broken in, Greg. I’ve got north of 600 rounds through it, which I thought was the high end of the cutoff, but maybe it just needs some more shooting. Like I said, right now I’ll probably carry the Glock and just keep firing rounds through the Springfield until it breaks in or I figure out the problem, then we’ll see.
And, yeah, Stuart, the lack of a safety does concern me somewhat, though I try to offset that with lots and lots of presentation and dry fire exercises, with my finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Hopefully that helps.
My goal is 200-300 rounds a month, and right now I’ve been hitting that, split between the Glock and the Springfield, mainly, with some through the Ruger, just because I like shooting it, and that double-action revolver trigger pull lets me know pretty quickly what I’m doing wrong.
Hey, Viking – Since you obviously mean urban black guys, why don’t you just say “urban black guys” instead of trying to gloss things over with phrases like “urban ghetto trash”?
As for “country boy,” ain’t that really just another way of saying “white boy”? Or should I just come right out and refer to you as “trailer trash”?
Oh, yeah, almost forgot to mention that I’m “country,” too, Bubba.
Check out Gabe Suarez’s WarriorTalk Forum: http://www.warriortalk.com/index.php
He is now firmly in the Glock 17 9mm camp now as a recommended carry weapon.
In my own experience, both with my own handguns and in professional training classes, I’ve had the same experience as you have. Glocks just work and keep on working. 1911′s demonstrate an all too frequent tendency to malfunction.
With modern, well designed hollow point ammo (124 +P or 147 Speer Gold Dots and 127 +P Winchester Ranger for me), I’m very comfortable carrying a 9mm, and I have developed much confidence in the reliability and “shootability” of my Glock 19.
Thanks, Sam. I’ll poke around the WarriorTalk site and write an update post some time in the next day or two.
Charley Arthur,
Since you don’t know me I can forgive that you might think that I would disparage a group simply because of pigment. The truth is, I really don’t care what shade a person’s skin is. I rarely even think about it which sometimes gets me in trouble because, on occasion, I do come across as being a racist because I don’t filter what I say through the “OH NOES! That might sound racist” filter.
By “country boy”, I merely ment that I grew up on a small farm in central Illinois. To get to a city of a size to warrant the name was an hour drive and most people would still call it a town. When I talk about urban culture, I am talking about the inner city culture that has become popular with rap and hip hop music. Mostly I’m talking about the subset of snot nosed wanabe gangstas that I see in the supermarket who can only use one hand because the other is busy keeping their much-to-big pants from falling down. These are mostly middle class white kids. So no, I don’t mean “urban black guys”.
In the interest of full disclosure, I’m not really white. I go so far past white that I glow in the dark, and just as I don’t assume social roles for others based upon their pigment, I would hope that others don’t judge me by my lack of pigment.
s
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For whatever it says about my family, one year my dad gave me Massad Ayoob’s IN THE GRAVEST EXTREME as a birthday present… and I still count it amongst the best presents I’ve ever received.
For those who carry (or don’t):
What knife do you or did you carry? If that’s even the right term–carry, I’m not sure.
Pocketknives, belted/sheathed, etc..
I’m curious because I’d imagine just as much thought & care went into that decision as did your choice of handgun.
I always have a knife with me, whether it’s on my person or in my bag..the only tool which I feel awkward without..and I’m looking for a replacement, I think.
Thanks again for this great blog, Ben.
I didn’t know whether to post this comment under Guns or Miscellany…
So here it is..